Tell me what I need to know about towing

[CBRtist]

Just curious where you're getting your tow ratings from. You mentioned looking at Tahoe/Yukon and Silverado. The former (for newer models) is closer to 6k lbs max towing and the latter is 11k, at least according to Caranddriver. Or are you talking about your current vehicle (not sure you mentioned what it is)?

Dealer. I've sat with them twice, and per them, crew cab Silverado 1500 tows 9200#.

When I told them what I needed to tow and where and asked if I should upgrade to 2500, they looked perplexed. I would *think* the dealer would want to make more money... but I could be wrong.

 

[JBowen33]

Just throwing this out there as a consideration.... my toy hauler is only 24 feet overall and maybe 7 thousand pounds ish fully loaded with gear etc. my F150 limited I had could tow it and honestly I could “manage” it okay but I had to be weary with stopping distances etc plus plan for hills etc because that truck with the 5.4 screamed up hills and got terrible gas mileage. Plus you had to be cautious as even with the weight hitch it sqatted like a pig with not that much weight in the back and trailer.

That being said I never felt comfortable letting my wife drive it because I knew in a “situation” she didn’t have the experience towing like I do or really much experience and with tha f150 in “oh shit” moments were exactly that.

I got rid of my f150 and recently bought a 2016 Ram 2500 Laramie with the 5.7 in it.

Best thing I ever did. Towing with it is effortless and makes a huge difference on the way home after a track weekend being exhausted because there is no “working” while towing and it is enough truck “oh shit” moments don’t happen much. It’s also nice to feel comfortable knowing my wife can drive it safely and effortlessly in case I’m tired and or injured.


My gas mileage with this truck is the same as my f150 10-12 towing at 75-80 miles an hour when my f150 got 7-8 towing at 65-70 miles per hour. I lost 1 mpg highway unloaded in the Ram compared to the f150


The 2500 drives more quietly and I don’t think the ride is much different then my f150 was other then my f150 was “quicker” off the line but the torque wasn’t there like the Ram.

The 2500 is more difficult to park only downside and it’s not because of the size it’s because the turning radius isn’t as tight.

 

[tdelegram]

Totally get it. I do have a big ass 5th wheel hauler in case those growing pains kick in (God forbid lol). Just trying to downsize and do the "less is more" for a majority of trips we can easily manage. Don't get me wrong... appreciate the input!

Thicker is better when it comes to trailers.

 

[wmhjr]

Two things, since we're beating this horse senseless...

As mentioned so many times, please totally disregard the bullshit "tow ratings" that manufacturers are advertising for their trucks. IMHO we're not long from a major incident that causes the NHTSA get involved and force them to reel in their frankly unsafe stated capabilities. Speaking bluntly - there is zero - and I mean ZERO - chance that those 1/2T trucks should be considered to "safely" tow the numbers that the manufacturers are claiming. I'm not making that statement lightly - I truly believe this. New car/truck dealers are the very last place to take advice from as for what you should buy. I've never ever in my life met a truck dealer that had even the slightest clue. Just here in this thread you've got a number of people who each individually have probably pulled with 1/2T, 3/4T and 1T trucks more than any of the salespeople you'll ever meet - in one year.

Second - Tom is right. If you're buying a trailer that's at least 20' - particularly a toy hauler, it really doesn't cost you much more in any regard to go a little bigger than you "think" you'll want. The cost of the trailer, and the cost of pulling it, are not going to be that much more to go for example from a 20' TH to a 24' TH. So long as you don't get into the much heavier 5th wheel or longer tag trailers that are much heavier, pulling them isn't really any different. As a matter of fact, the longer the trailer, the easier it is to back up to be honest. If you have the room for storage, my advice is don't skimp. You'll appreciate the extra space every time you use the trailer. Personally, I have tons of room to store my trailers, but have limits on turn radius to put it exactly where I want. That's the only reason I chose the length I did - otherwise I'd have gone yet another couple of feet longer. I live on a country road, and have large trees on both sides of my driveway entrance. Particularly when pulling with a gasser, your fuel economy is going to be based on three factors. Frontal area, and weight. Marginal weight increases by extending trailer length do not result in linear fuel economy impacts. Finally, speed/terrain will have an enormous impact.

One other thing to remember. For all practical purposes, a 3/4T is every bit as "drivable" as a daily driver as a 1/2T. Particularly if you're getting the same general drivetrain, the only measurable difference is that the 3/4T will ride a little stiffer - but even there, the new 3/4T trucks ride pretty darned nice. There is one - and only one - reason IMHO to even remotely consider a 1/2T if you're going to pull any reasonable sized trailer. That is that here in PA, your annual registration costs are a good bit higher. I believe my annual registration is $152 but am not totally sure. For me, that only means something if you're only pulling a trailer once or twice a year for a short distance.

Whatever you do, good luck. You're getting the advice because we like you and don't want you and Ria to have a problem!

 

[D-Zum]

To add a some perspective. I was towing my boat with my Titan this past summer. Going down to the outer banks for some family fun. Lost an outer bearing on the passenger side rear axle. Boat and trailer are around 7k to 7.5k with the fishing gear and some fuel.

It wasn’t much of an event. Just thankful that I carry a spare hub and bearings. Took some time to get the nut off, but that was the hardest part of the event.

My point is that even if you are towing a lot, a large component of the risk is how you drive. I feel a modern 150/1500 is able to safely tow 8k, if you adjust your driving. I don't drive the same way when I am towing a trailer as I do without one. A looooooooooot more distance between the car in front of me and myself. I generally stay in the right lane. I’m grandma getting off and on freeways or roadways. Aggression isn’t an option. Freeway speed is usually the speed limit or 65. Whichever is slower.

I do agree that hilly terrain will tax the engine and transmission more, but you aren’t doing this 5 days or even 2 days a week. Your doing it 2-4 days a month for 6 months out of the year. Going into Pitt will be 2nd gear all the way up. It won’t be fast, but do you want to spend $10-$15k more for 50 miles of road a year?

I can’t remember who said this earlier in the thread, I think it was Rob, it’s not about the go..... it’s about the stop. Make sure you get the brakes well sorted and I think you would be fine with a modern 150/1500 that is moderately outfitted for towing.

I think we have to take anything Kevin says with a huge gain of salt when it comes to this topic. Kevin's on trailer probation after the Great Off The Top Event of Barber 2016.

I think this is what Kevin can tow in 2018 until he's at least 6 months incident free.

 

[Menotomy]

Dealer. I've sat with them twice, and per them, crew cab Silverado 1500 tows 9200#.

When I told them what I needed to tow and where and asked if I should upgrade to 2500, they looked perplexed. I would *think* the dealer would want to make more money... but I could be wrong.

Fair enough.

Though I don't know why they would look perplexed. Some people like to be certain they have enough with room to grow or if they tow a friend's trailer or something.

Based on what you're saying about your trailer I think you will be okay with a Silverado, they are good trucks and on the higher end of capability for a 1/2 ton. Just to add some details that you may or may not have asked about, you can get different final drive ratios, like 3.55 and 3.73 (or something around those numbers). The higher the number, the more it can tow, but the lower your gas mileage will be. Also, 4x4 is very useful in a pickup truck, but it slightly lowers towing capacity and maybe 1 mpg. Personally I'd take 4x4 over 2x4 if you live anywhere north of Southern Virginia. Also, consider a weight distribution hitch, it will add towing capacity and stability of the trailer. I think you said you're getting a tow package which should have a brake controller already installed. If not, you can get aftermarket controllers.

 

[Menotomy]

I think we have to take anything Kevin says with a huge gain of salt when it comes to this topic. Kevin's on trailer probation after the Great Off The Top Event of Barber 2016.

I think this is what Kevin can tow in 2018 until he's at least 6 months incident free.

You joke, but that is an AWESOME setup for CCS races where you have to bring all your gear and belly pan to tech inspection every race. More stable than a scooter too, and a basket to put your 6'er of beer (or coconut water) to complete the package!

 

[borislav]

As mentioned so many times, please totally disregard the bullshit "tow ratings" that manufacturers are advertising for their trucks. IMHO we're not long from a major incident that causes the NHTSA get involved and force them to reel in their frankly unsafe stated capabilities. Speaking bluntly - there is zero - and I mean ZERO - chance that those 1/2T trucks should be considered to "safely" tow the numbers that the manufacturers are claiming. I'm not making that statement lightly - I truly believe this.

Just for the sake of discussion and discussion ONLY I must ask you is this statement based upon information that you have access to and most of us don't or this is just your opinion!?
In today's world where common sense is not so common any more there is NO WAY manufacturers will leave themselves so open to lawsuit by stating that truck xx can pull yyKlbs and in actuality it can't! We all know there are people out there who will do this and not to test manufcturer honesty but because they are just...you know.
Many years ago I worked for a Jeep brand as technician and I can tell you with out most confidence that if Jeep said that Wrangled Rubikon (for example) can do this it better do it because you know what people do with Wranglers... I had personally worked on couple of those that people try above and beyond what manufacturer said it can and vehicle broke down. Factory representative found (it was obvious) that damage was due to abuse but Jeep stud behind it's product and repaired it to gain happy customer. What do you think they would do if somebody got injured or wors during this abuse stunt, you are right they would build Chinese wall around themselves in a record time with a big ass banner hanging off of it saying ABUSE! I'm not questioning or discussing who will stay behind their product I just put this as example how they will not do or say something that turns out to be lie that will take money out of their pocket in the shape of warranty repairs etc. You probably know that they have legions of lawyers on payroll and I highly doubt they will advise them in a first place to advertise information which is a lie which can get somebody killed.

 

[borislav]

Two things, since we're beating this horse senseless...

As mentioned so many times, please totally disregard the bullshit "tow ratings" that manufacturers are advertising for their trucks. IMHO we're not long from a major incident that causes the NHTSA get involved and force them to reel in their frankly unsafe stated capabilities. Speaking bluntly - there is zero - and I mean ZERO - chance that those 1/2T trucks should be considered to "safely" tow the numbers that the manufacturers are claiming. I'm not making that statement lightly - I truly believe this.

Just for the sake of discussion and discussion ONLY I must ask you is this statement based upon information that you have access to and most of us don't or this is just your opinion!?
In today's world where common sense is not so common any more there is NO WAY manufacturers will leave themselves so open to lawsuit by stating that truck xx can pull yyKlbs and in actuality it can't! We all know there are people out there who will do this and not to test manufcturer honesty but because they are just...you know.
Many years ago I worked for a Jeep brand as technician and I can tell you with out most confidence that if Jeep said that Wrangled Rubikon (for example) can do this it better do it because you know what people do with Wranglers... I had personally worked on couple of those that people try above and beyond what manufacturer said it can and vehicle broke down. Factory representative found (it was obvious) that damage was due to abuse but Jeep stud behind it's product and repaired it to gain happy customer. What do you think they would do if somebody got injured or wors during this abuse stunt, you are right they would build Chinese wall around themselves in a record time with a big ass banner hanging off of it saying ABUSE! I'm not questioning or discussing who will stay behind their product I just put this as example how they will not do or say something that turns out to be lie that will take money out of their pocket in the shape of warranty repairs etc. You probably know that they have legions of lawyers on payroll and I highly doubt they will advise them in a first place to advertise information which is a lie which can get somebody killed.

 

[wmhjr]

Just for the sake of discussion and discussion ONLY I must ask you is this statement based upon information that you have access to and most of us don't or this is just your opinion!?
In today's world where common sense is not so common any more there is NO WAY manufacturers will leave themselves so open to lawsuit by stating that truck xx can pull yyKlbs and in actuality it can't! We all know there are people out there who will do this and not to test manufcturer honesty but because they are just...you know.
Many years ago I worked for a Jeep brand as technician and I can tell you with out most confidence that if Jeep said that Wrangled Rubikon (for example) can do this it better do it because you know what people do with Wranglers... I had personally worked on couple of those that people try above and beyond what manufacturer said it can and vehicle broke down. Factory representative found (it was obvious) that damage was due to abuse but Jeep stud behind it's product and repaired it to gain happy customer. What do you think they would do if somebody got injured or wors during this abuse stunt, you are right they would build Chinese wall around themselves in a record time with a big ass banner hanging off of it saying ABUSE! I'm not questioning or discussing who will stay behind their product I just put this as example how they will not do or say something that turns out to be lie that will take money out of their pocket in the shape of warranty repairs etc. You probably know that they have legions of lawyers on payroll and I highly doubt they will advise them in a first place to advertise information which is a lie which can get somebody killed.

Boris, this is based on information readily available and frankly the idea that manufacturers wouldn’t at least stretch the truth is preposterous. They do it every day, confident that their team of lawyers will usually outgun the risk. There are thousands of examples of this through automotive history. Need I mention fuel tanks, brake failures, high speed instability, etc? For them it’s a calculated formula of potential revenue versus calculated financial risk. If only a small number die, the financial liability can be offset by yet greater revenue. There is this new concept called physics. It cares not a bit about marketing. A 10k trailer can defeat a 1/2t truck every single day no matter the advertising. Mass plus leverage equals disaster.

 

[borislav]

Boris, this is based on information readily available and frankly the idea that manufacturers wouldn’t at least stretch the truth is preposterous. They do it every day, confident that their team of lawyers will usually outgun the risk. There are thousands of examples of this through automotive history. Need I mention fuel tanks, brake failures, high speed instability, etc? For them it’s a calculated formula of potential revenue versus calculated financial risk. If only a small number die, the financial liability can be offset by yet greater revenue. There is this new concept called physics. It cares not a bit about marketing. A 10k trailer can defeat a 1/2t truck every single day no matter the advertising. Mass plus leverage equals disaster.

First of all I ment to say all that once not twice wtf!
I agree with you about the stretching the truth happens BUT we don't know for fact that is happening in this instance. They say truck will pull 10k trailer and that's it. I think nobody in right mind would tow 10k trailer with out brakes with 1/2, 3/4... truck. I think what misconception is if truck PULLS it, truck will STOP it, this is the part people get caught up by and than your new concept takes over.

 

[Dave561]

I pulled 18k and didn’t hook up once. Made it to within 10 miles of Home and someone said my lights weren’t working.

Of course this is a one ton dually (13.3k gvwr)

 

[Menotomy]

I pulled 18k and didn’t hook up once. Made it to within 10 miles of Home and someone said my lights weren’t working.

Of course this is a one ton dually (13.3k gvwr)

What's its GCWR?

 

[Dave561]

30k

 

[physicistkev]

I think we have to take anything Kevin says with a huge gain of salt when it comes to this topic. Kevin's on trailer probation after the Great Off The Top Event of Barber 2016.

I think this is what Kevin can tow in 2018 until he's at least 6 months incident free.

Well, technically I've been incident free for 18 months. So, that should cover me. Plus I got a new toy.

 

[D-Zum]

OH yeah? What new toy did you get Kevin?

 

[tdelegram]

OH yeah? What new toy did you get Kevin?

Roof mount AC?

 

[physicistkev]

Ding ding ding for Mr Delegram. If you're going to be at NC on April 7-8 or Pitt on April 28-29, you'll see it. It's really not that special compared to most everyone else's, but it's extravagant for me.

 

[D-Zum]

Well done. Hope you got a genny to power it if you cannot get power at the track. It's nice to have that option.

Got my 5th wheel back yesterday from a little warranty work and a Summerization. Just gotta put the Pit Bull plates in now and
I'll be ready for the season.

 

[wmhjr]

Good for you, Kev! That AC is a lifesaver for me! Don't think you'll need it much at NC or Pitt during the beginning of the year - but it'll REALLY be nice as the season progresses.